Generation Gap - Random thought for the day...

Completely off-topic conversational diarrhea that the rest of the internet won't let you post anywhere because it's so pointless and irrelevant to anything important.
User avatar
Venomous
Site Admin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: Social Deviancy
Contact:

Post by Venomous » Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:30 pm

Kristi wrote:Sounds more like super-ego than superpower to me....and I'm right on this so don't argue!
I'm going to choose to let you believe that you're right out of pity for the lesser creatures... =P
Hero of the Day wrote:dude that happens alot in real life too. Take a good hard look at the big argument that is brewing about intelligent design

oh btw speaking of intelligent design: http://www.venganza.org/
Never heard of this "Intelligent Design" business in my life... until I visited that URL, and now I still don't know anything about it. Though I'm thinking of converting to FSMism now though! Why haven't I started my own religion yet, anyway??

Oh yeah, I remember... too lazy. =)
- Venomous -

The internet is a tool, and so are most of the people who use it...

Social Deviancy

User avatar
Hellmark
Pissed Off Gimp Farmboy
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:54 pm
Location: O'Fallon, Missouri
Contact:

Post by Hellmark » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:21 am

The last few years, in the US, there has been a gathering group trying to push for intelligent design to be taught in schools. Its bullshit to me, because its basically saying "There is a all powerful creature, that there is absolutely no evidence that he exists, designed and constructed the universe", and expecting it to be taught as scientific theory. Yes, they expect creationism and religious dogma to be thought of equally by those in the scientfific community as stuff that has some proof.

User avatar
Venomous
Site Admin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: Social Deviancy
Contact:

Post by Venomous » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:50 am

Hellmark wrote:The last few years, in the US, there has been a gathering group trying to push for intelligent design to be taught in schools. Its bullshit to me, because its basically saying "There is a all powerful creature, that there is absolutely no evidence that he exists, designed and constructed the universe", and expecting it to be taught as scientific theory. Yes, they expect creationism and religious dogma to be thought of equally by those in the scientfific community as stuff that has some proof.
So, in a nutshell, this "Intelligent Design", is just the latest new millenium buzzword for Creationism, and is a different spin on the same old attempts to remove the separation of church and state and allow Christian dogma to be taught in public schools?

No wonder I haven't heard anything about this - this sort of tired old crap has been going on since the dawn of time, and will continue until the end of the world. It's hardly news - just another spin on an old, old tale...
- Venomous -

The internet is a tool, and so are most of the people who use it...

Social Deviancy

User avatar
Hellmark
Pissed Off Gimp Farmboy
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:54 pm
Location: O'Fallon, Missouri
Contact:

Post by Hellmark » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:33 am

Yeah, its old, but its recently had a big push.

Mythic
Lonely Lamer
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 4:57 pm
Location: The Dark Side of The Moon

Post by Mythic » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:32 pm

Why not give them the choice of what to believe though. Those for intelligent design are really no different than those expecting people to believe the Big Bang theory of which there is no proof of either. In fact there is plenty of evidence in existance today that a large part of the stories in the bible were indeed true.

If they want to stay out of it entirely w/o stepping on any toes, then why not teach that the educational community has no evidence have how the world was spawned and therefore do not know.

To me a theory is a theory, there are those that believe in intelligent design that do not hold to any religion. Their reasoning is just as good as two atoms appearing out of nowhere and colliding into each other and "Poof" there is a universe. They had trouble hanging that one on me when I was small.

I for one, do believe in the bible and in creationalism, but there is a logical side of my brain that can see that both "theories" are simply that, theories and cannot be proven either way.
Always Dancing in the Shadows.

User avatar
MP81
Chronic Spammer
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:34 pm
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Post by MP81 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:31 pm

Yeah...

I, personally, do believe in God and everything...

But I'm more inclined to believe in the evoultion theory, as there is a TON of evidence to support it, and such... It's just all there...


But to these people pushing for creationism taught in school...

I recommend you read our Constitution and find out how there is, in fact, a statement in there about "Freedom of Religion" and how it should not become mixed in the Government...

Also, if they somehow get this in there, fights will be more from "OMG, like you believe in t3h creationism, and I don't" instead of "Dude, you fucked my girlfriend...you're dead"... :roll:

Mythic
Lonely Lamer
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 4:57 pm
Location: The Dark Side of The Moon

Post by Mythic » Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:50 pm

Speaking as one that went to school before praying and talking about creationalism was banned, I don't recall any fights of that caliber! hehe.

It was handled well where I went to school and then wasn't an issue at all. Creationalism was suggested as a theory as was evolution. And yes, you are right, there is evidence to support evolution, but nothing that is concrete. Hence, it is still a theory. And i'm not opposed to the idea of evolution playing into the roll of creationalism.

As far as separation of church and state, as much as the church is supposed to stay out of the state, the state is also not supposed to lend support or take away support for religion. This very argument between is a prime example of it. As I said, speaking from someone that was there before AND after, it was less of an issue before people started making it an issue. If a kid wanted to pray in school they did, if they didn't, they didn't have to. If a teacher wanted to enact a moment of silence (which has also become an issue because some consider a moment of silence to be too much like prayer) then a child could sit with their eyes closed, look out of the window or doodle on a piece of paper. the choice was theirs......there is now too much choice being taken out of the schools.

Creationalism is also hailed as a science. There are scientists that seek proof of that just as the scientists that seek proof that we all came from monkeys, but the state is terrified to touch the subject because it sounds too much like organized religion therefor students are being deprived of another "theory" and the knowledge to make their own choice.

"Choice" in schools is an issue I"ve been harping on quite a bit actually. And not just on this issue. So many schools have gone to standard uniforms and I think that is wrong. While our history books are teaching against socialism we are incorporating it slowly into our schools. That being said, what are we going to be teaching our future leaders?
Always Dancing in the Shadows.

User avatar
Venomous
Site Admin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: Social Deviancy
Contact:

Post by Venomous » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:11 am

As a general rule, I don't discuss my personal views on politics or theology in public. Sure, I'll rant about this minor topic or that minor topic, like immigration, or gun control, but I don't assign these opinions to any particular overall political viewpoint. Same with religion.

I will say, though, that I believe strongly in the separation of church and state. Simply put, we go to school to learn about science, and we go to church to learn about God. They won't teach evolutionism in church, so why should they teach creationism in schools?

It's not as if there is any shortage of religious paths to choose, and there is certainly no shortage of houses of worship to attend if you want to learn about religion. I just don't believe they should be pushing it in schools, too. Most good churches open their doors to anybody wanting to know more about religion, they're free, welcoming, and always open. If you want to learn about God, go to church. If you want to learn about science, go to school.

Mind you, I don't believe in bringing children up religious though, either. I believe that religion is something that everybody should come to on their own, not because their parents or their school brought them up that way.

Mind you, I'm pro-choice all the way, so if they wanted to bring in a Creationism class as an elective class in high schools that students could choose to attend but nobody had to, I'd be all for that. {shrugs}
- Venomous -

The internet is a tool, and so are most of the people who use it...

Social Deviancy

User avatar
MP81
Chronic Spammer
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:34 pm
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Post by MP81 » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:17 am

Venomous wrote:Mind you, I don't believe in bringing children up religious though, either.
OMG...my friend's mom is INCREDIBLE like ZOMG the UBER Over-protective...

i.e. he got GROUNDED for watching TELETUBBIES when he was 5. Now, yes the Teletubbies inflict gay thoughts upon children and teach children to make messes they won't clean up. But GROUNDED?

He is 14, he can't play Teen rated games, he can't watch PG-13 movies, and all that shit...

Plus he has 8 siblings and has to sleep under his parents bed, if you catch my drift...

She is UBER religious.

User avatar
Venomous
Site Admin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: Social Deviancy
Contact:

Post by Venomous » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:43 am

MP81 wrote:OMG...my friend's mom is INCREDIBLE like ZOMG the UBER Over-protective...
i.e. he got GROUNDED for watching TELETUBBIES when he was 5. Now, yes the Teletubbies inflict gay thoughts upon children and teach children to make messes they won't clean up. But GROUNDED?
He is 14, he can't play Teen rated games, he can't watch PG-13 movies, and all that shit...
Plus he has 8 siblings and has to sleep under his parents bed, if you catch my drift...
She is UBER religious.
And you're friends with this nerd? I bet he's a totally fucked up head case, with an upbringing like that.

You need to teach that kid to smoke reefer, and then help him run away from home. =)
- Venomous -

The internet is a tool, and so are most of the people who use it...

Social Deviancy

User avatar
MP81
Chronic Spammer
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:34 pm
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Post by MP81 » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:54 am

Yeah, he's my friend...

We're actually planning on like sneaking him shit...

Oh, when he bought Star Wars Jedi Outcast II, which is rated Teen, his mom THREW IT AWAY...

But his dad lets him do shit...his dad's a cop...lol...

Kids cool though...we like to poke fun at him and his deprivedness...

User avatar
Venomous
Site Admin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: Social Deviancy
Contact:

Post by Venomous » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:57 am

MP81 wrote:Yeah, he's my friend...
We're actually planning on like sneaking him shit...
Oh, when he bought Star Wars Jedi Outcast II, which is rated Teen, his mom THREW IT AWAY...
But his dad lets him do shit...his dad's a cop...lol...
Kids cool though...we like to poke fun at him and his deprivedness...
Man, his dad should get really drunk one night, and shoot his mom. And then they should flee justice on a motorbike - a renegade cop taking his son on the road, the rite of passage where he learns to become a man...

Coming soon, to a theatre near you!
- Venomous -

The internet is a tool, and so are most of the people who use it...

Social Deviancy

User avatar
Hellmark
Pissed Off Gimp Farmboy
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:54 pm
Location: O'Fallon, Missouri
Contact:

Post by Hellmark » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:41 am

Kristi wrote:To me a theory is a theory, there are those that believe in intelligent design that do not hold to any religion. Their reasoning is just as good as two atoms appearing out of nowhere and colliding into each other and "Poof" there is a universe. They had trouble hanging that one on me when I was small.
There are differences though between beliefs and theories. A theory has some evidence to support it, where as sometimes a belief has nothing but your faith to support it. Thats my beef about it. There is scientific evidence that there was a big bang, there is scientific evidence for evolution on large and small scales, but there is no evidence that an intelligent being created the universe. I'm not an athiest, but then again, I'm not trying to shove my beliefs off onto others when they are dressed up as something else.

Mythic
Lonely Lamer
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 4:57 pm
Location: The Dark Side of The Moon

Post by Mythic » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:54 pm

I'm not trying to shove my beliefs on anybody. One can accept what they choose to believe and I'm not going to think ill of them for it. I have many freinds that believe diffferently than I do, but they are still my freinds.

I just hate to see the choice taken out of schools. And yes, as Karl said there are many churches on every street corner, but many children will never see the inside of one, because they were taught that religion has no place inside of a state building and not that they have the freedom to choose to be a part of one. Religion is branded as such an ill thing, the media makes sure of that by advertising every ill thing that comes of it. It has recieved quite a bit of negative publicity because of the lunatics that do ill in it's name. What people fail to see it as is a culture as well. I still believe that children should be taught what religion means, not any specific religion, so that they at least have the right concept of it other than Waco and Muslim Extremists. Like it or not, religion is a part of everyones daily lives, it is in the air all around them because so much of what happens in this world is due, in part, to religion. They need to understand that in order to combat the forces that do ill in it's name. Teaching religion and teaching the concept of religion are two different things. Religion is at the root of most of what we see in the news today. Not the right sort of religion, not a peaceful religion, all things have a negative, but it exists, it is right there in their faces and they need to know about it.

Kyle, I think it is great that you are freinds with this kid, he probably needs you and other "normal" kids as an outlet since he apparantly does not have one at home. At least he has his dad, but it seems mom opinion outweighs dad's opinion!! That is sad, but he will be out from under her roof one day....hopefully!

My nephew watched Teletubbies when he was smaller. All the "gay" stuff was going on at the time. My sis didn't pay much attention to it, but then my nephew started talking like them all the time. My sister kept telling him to talk right (he was doing it *all* the time, at the dinner table, when asking for a glass of juice, whatever) and she warned him that if he didn't start talking right she would not let him watch it anymore. Finally, she made him quit watching it until he dropped the teletubby talk, then everone accused her of jumping on the "teletubbies are gay" bandwagon. She held to her guns though.....and I have to say...it really was annoying.

All this being said, I am not a hard right-wing activist. I believe what I believe, just as you all have your own beliefs, it's what makes us all individual and quite honestly I enjoy debating on occasion. I actually believe in balance and moderation and the right to express yourself. And the right to knowledge.

There are many grey areas in life. And too often instead of finding some balance, people are prone to drawing a hard line in the sand and refusing to cross it, even at jeapordy of cutting themselves off from information that is critical to making a decision that is best for them.

As for the Big Bang theory, did anyone ever figure out where the atoms came from to begin with?
Always Dancing in the Shadows.

User avatar
Hellmark
Pissed Off Gimp Farmboy
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:54 pm
Location: O'Fallon, Missouri
Contact:

Post by Hellmark » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:13 pm

Well, according to Einstien and his theory of relativity, energy can be converted into mass, and mass into energy.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests