Opinions on gun laws?

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Desslok

Opinions on gun laws?

Post by Desslok » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Personally I have a deathly, primal fear of guns due to my viewing of a Dragnet episode ("A Gun For Christmas") when I was small. A boy found a gun in his dad's closet, accidentally shot his friend... Yeah.

However, on the intellectual level at least I know that if peeps can't have their guns and they really want 'em they'll get 'em illegally, and then the Dragnet boys can't go into the comical gigantic 1950s computerized gun registry and find out who has a .38 and is left-handed.

Plus if you securely stash your guns (and teach your kids to stay the hell out of Daddy's closet, where he stashes his collection of dead hookers) it's unlikely anyone will accidentally shoot their own eye out.

Any thoughts? Are the current laws too restrictive? Or do you think there should be, like, a maximum number of guns per-adult-capita? What about kids? Kids aren't allowed to own guns, but, like, a .22 rimfire isn't really that powerful at all. If their parents can control the kid, why the hell not?

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Post by Venomous » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:09 am

This is an excellent topic, and one that probably deserved to be addressed before poor Desslok got deleted for inactivity, never to be seen again.

I can only speak for Australia's gun laws, which are a zero tolerance joke. Ever since that massacre back all those decades ago, we are a gun-free country. Handguns are outright illegal except for cops and some security guards, and two-handed weapons are available only by license, and with proof that you're a farmer or rural land-owner who needs a gun to hunt on their own property. And even with that, most Australian animals are protected these days anyway, so there are restrictions on what you can and can't shoot on top of that.

So, from my perspective, America's gun laws are wonderful, because by comparison to ours here in Australia, they're very free and liberal. I'm sure somebody who has grown up with American laws might have another perspective, and if so, I'd love to hear it.

Zoltan, I know you're a gun owner. What are your country's gun laws like compared to America or Australia?
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Post by MP81 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:49 pm

You cannot own a gun in Washington DC.

Guess who has the guns...criminals. It makes robbing a knowingly unarmed civilian that much easier...
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Post by seajayjay » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:19 pm

I have good friend who has guns i'm guessing plenty of them most are some really really high end air soft and of course some real guns. there also out where the kids can reach them. How ever his kids know way better than to touch them ad has never had any problems.

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Post by MP81 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:31 pm

Yes, people who have guns and kids should teach their kids about them, and not to use them (I mean, put the fear of God into them).

Because, think about it, all that safety shit is great and all - until someone breaks into your house, and you have to unlock the case, then unlock and remove the trigger lockout, then go find your ammo you hid elsewhere, load your clip, and then you can use it.

By that time, the thief is either gone, or you're dead.

I'd rather have my gun cocked, locked and ready to rock, instead of dicking around.
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Post by seajayjay » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:16 am

I mean aside from that they have no ammo but, they no better big time. I know he always has pistol near by loaded and ready. He uses proper gun safety and uses a holster.

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Post by heisenb0rg » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:04 pm

Venomous wrote:Zoltan, I know you're a gun owner. What are your country's gun laws like compared to America or Australia?
To be precise, I used to be a gun owner. I gave it up years ago. However, I still love guns and shooting. That, and no more. I hate hunting unless it's really for food you actually eat to survive. Or maybe if someone were in life threatening danger...and the only means of defending a human life would be to kill an animal.

Hungary's gun laws are among the strictest ones in Europe, the one country that goes beyond us is the UK. They have zero tolerance just like Australia.

In my opinion, every lawful citizen should be allowed to own a gun and defend themselves. Until a few years back I had been a regular reader of Hungary's only gun magazine in which there is a column called Guns and Legislation. A lawyer is the author of that column. He had a series of articles in which he closely examined all the gun-related laws and found that there was no Hungarian armed force (military, police, secret services, etc.) whose task by law was to defend the average citizen. The military only acts in case of war, the police only acts after there's been a crime, the harm is already done, and all other armed organizations are alike. Yet, as a Hungarian citizen you have no right to own a weapon and use it to defend yourself and your family.

My beloved P226 was registered as a sports weapon which forbids me to carry it loaded and use it outside designated shooting ranges. I can only carry it in a closed case, ammo and gun separated. Stupid, eh?

Another point which legislators often fail to understand: legislation only works for the law-abiding citizen. In the last 20 years in Hungary there were two people killed by a registered sports weapon (excluding suicides). On the other hand, dozens if not hundreds died of gun shot wounds from hunting weapons... Interesting insight: there are no sports shooters in the Parliament, but there are lots of hunters. Additionaly, there are about 2,000 sports weaposn registered in Hungary; the number of hunting weapons, however, is over 130,000. Strange, eh?

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Post by seajayjay » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:53 pm

Yeah well over here, and i'm sure any where prices are ridiculous, so hunting isn't bad idea. About to go get me some bambi burger. If you killed a butchered a cow you would be set for a while and be able to extra off.

Just cause you can't carry a gun doesn't mean you won't also it doesn't mean you can't use other means of defending your self.
Last edited by seajayjay on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Venomous » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:07 pm

I don't actually understand cdoublejj's post (as usual) so I'm just going to reply to heisenb0rg...

Zoltan, I never knew you gave up your fantastic little SIG! And years ago? I guess we've known each other for so long that years can go by and me not notice it. =)

I couldn't agree more with your opinion that every lawful citizen should be allowed to own a gun and have the right to defend themselves from an armed attacker. Or zombies. But you say in Hungary, like Australia and the UK, you're not allowed to keep a gun in your home. This is offensive to me.

You can't fairly legislate gun usage. The criminals don't buy their guns through legal channels, register them and obey the gun laws. They just buy them wherever they can get them, load them, and shoot people like you and me at their leisure. How is this fair? I'm not honestly sure.

I tell you one thing. When the governments collapse and all hell breaks loose with civilization, I'll be the first one trying to rob a gun store so I can defend myself from rioters and looters. And zombies.
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Post by seajayjay » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:46 pm

Go for the Glock 18C i always did want to shoot one. looks like a normal hand gun except it has full auto!

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Post by heisenb0rg » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:42 am

Yeah, Karl, years ago. When we moved out of Budapest it became increasingly difficult to carry my gun (remember, guns registered as sports weapon can only be carried in a case with the ammo separated) from home to work to the range... I couldn't leave in the trunk of my car and I couldn't take it with me into a bank either (most of my clients are banks, so I spend 3-4 days a week working in and for banks). So I'd have had to leave the gun at home, go to work, go back home, get back to town, go to the range, shoot, go home, store the gun properly. Then there was the question of cost. Ammo prices skyrocketed, range membership, permits, etc. also cost money. So I finally decided to give up. It wasn't a happy moment.

About the legislation issue: no one ever said it was fair. And it isn't. Politicians don't give a crap, they are guarded by state-paid police 24/7. Do they give a shit if I'm shot, robbed, or terrorized? No.

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Post by heisenb0rg » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 am

cdoublejj wrote:Go for the Glock 18C i always did want to shoot one. looks like a normal hand gun except it has full auto!
It's a toy. A full-auto pistol is plain stupid. Yeah, I know it's not permanent full-auto, it has a fire-control selector switch, but still... It was developed for a special ops unit in Austria. Maybe they know how to handle it and have training to control recoil but it ceratinly is not for the regular Joe.

For self-defence there is no better choice than a six-shooter chambered in .357 magnum. More than sufficient stopping power, simple construction, reliable operation, easy handling, and can be safely carried fully loaded without a manual safety. Ideal.

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Post by seajayjay » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:51 pm

that magnum probably has more kick the 18c. any who it's not leagle to own on here, i think there might be a way if your shooting trainer or something. I know guy that bounty work for long he knows a law enforcement guy that has one legally. He got see it one day when he was talking to his law enforcement friend.

any who even a good knife will stop them in their tracks, believe it or not knives ell cheap as dirt at amine conventions witch i used to go to every year and still would if could. Any who i have few beefy knives that i'm sure probably aren't leagle here that i picked up for cheap. there aren't high quality but, they work and keep an edge.

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Post by Venomous » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:43 pm

heisenb0rg wrote:Yeah, Karl, years ago. When we moved out of Budapest it became increasingly difficult to carry my gun (remember, guns registered as sports weapon can only be carried in a case with the ammo separated) from home to work to the range... I couldn't leave in the trunk of my car and I couldn't take it with me into a bank either (most of my clients are banks, so I spend 3-4 days a week working in and for banks). So I'd have had to leave the gun at home, go to work, go back home, get back to town, go to the range, shoot, go home, store the gun properly. Then there was the question of cost. Ammo prices skyrocketed, range membership, permits, etc. also cost money. So I finally decided to give up. It wasn't a happy moment.
Aww, that's just terrible. I mean, when you put it that way, I can totally see why you had to let it go, but it's an awful shame that circumstances led you to have no other choice. =( It makes me sad that even in a country where you can legally own a handgun, you still can't really practically own one. =(
heisenb0rg wrote:About the legislation issue: no one ever said it was fair. And it isn't. Politicians don't give a crap, they are guarded by state-paid police 24/7. Do they give a shit if I'm shot, robbed, or terrorized? No.
Of course not. That's true the world over. I don't know who votes for these assholes but it certainly isn't me.
heisenb0rg wrote:For self-defence there is no better choice than a six-shooter chambered in .357 magnum. More than sufficient stopping power, simple construction, reliable operation, easy handling, and can be safely carried fully loaded without a manual safety. Ideal.
I'm the last person who could claim to know their guns, but something about six-shooters seems so... antiquated to me. Maybe they're good enough for John Wayne and Charlton Heston, but I prefer the look and feel of a pistol with a clip. Just a personal choice based on what I've seen really. I've never even held one or the other. Only guns I've ever fired in my life were a Winchester rifle and a 12-gauge shotgun. And I was just a kid at the time.
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Post by Jackie » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:26 pm

Personally I would say that unless you actually use them for what they were made - killing people - there's no reason to have laws to legalize the ownership and usage of guns.

America might as well abolish all gun rights. Why? Well, unless people are shooting at each other on a daily basis, I just don't see the point. Some say they want guns to defend themselves. And I have once seen a news report about a shopkeeper who shot a guy who tried to rob him by threatening with a firing arm pointed at his face.

But all in all, it's truly a rarity for someone to actually use their weapon. And usually you can't shoot robbers and potential murderers anyway, because you'll go to jail yourself for using unnecessary violence.
Considering the circumstances it's a big fat waste. The weapon industry is making too much money this way. And while I'm sure it makes you feel powerful to own a weapon, if you cannot use it you're still powerless.

So what do we want? Shoot animals in the wild? Very illegal and highly punishable in most cases. Or empty our guns at the shooting range? Please...

Whenever there is another public shooting most Americans think that it's good to have the 2nd amendment. Because criminals will always get weapons, legal or illegal. So the 'decent' citizens better have weapons too, right? Well, that's the argument at least. So, do people prevent these public shootings? Do people prevent personal assassinations? I don't think so. You would have to be clairvoyant like those psychics from Minority Report to make that point valid.

Either America starts national wars by forming factions and groups who combat each other with firepower, or they get rid of their guns. That's how I feel.

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